Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/06/2004 08:16 AM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
             HB 275-ANIMALS AND CRUELTY TO ANIMALS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS noted  that at the last  meeting, members discussed                                                               
some provisions that were troublesome.  He said over time, he has                                                               
worked with  people from the equine  industry, veterinarians, and                                                               
animal  advocates to  find a  way to  adequately protect  animals                                                               
without being  "extremist." He  said in  his proposal,  Section 1                                                               
addresses the  minimal standards necessary for  animals. He noted                                                               
that because  Alaska has  a very  small number  of veterinarians,                                                               
the  bill   requires  reasonable  medical  care   to  the  extent                                                               
available and  necessary. He  added that  his proposal  also says                                                               
that the  final determination  of whether  the standards  of care                                                               
are met shall be based on  the professional opinion of a licensed                                                               
veterinarian. He  noted the department  can adopt  regulations to                                                               
implement Section 1  and that the bill is too  open-ended in that                                                               
the department would  set other standards for  health and safety.                                                               
He  said   he  believes  his   proposal  contains   a  compatible                                                               
definition of the minimum standard of care.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH asked  why the sanitation portion of  the bill was                                                               
left out of Chair Seekins' proposal.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   SEEKINS  said   his  proposal   addresses  a   reasonable                                                               
sanitation level and that no  standard environment applies to all                                                               
animals. He said  his proposal is designed  to provide reasonable                                                               
guidelines  and  allows  a  veterinarian  would  make  the  final                                                               
determination as to what is a proper environment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OGAN  expressed concern that some  people believe animals                                                               
should have the same protections as humans. He explained:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I mean honestly, my daughter  was on a tour in Kachemak                                                                    
     Bay for school.  She was a chaperone  for younger kids,                                                                    
     and the  people that were  giving the tour  that hosted                                                                    
     the place  where they  stayed...were out  there talking                                                                    
     about how the starfish  murder the clams.... That's how                                                                    
     they  described  it to  these  kids  and my  daughter's                                                                    
     going  they  what?  They  murder   the  clams?  I  mean                                                                    
     honestly, there are some people  out there that are, as                                                                    
     far as  animal rights, an  animal doesn't have  a right                                                                    
     to  murder  another animal  to  continue  to live,  you                                                                    
     know, God or the natural  order or whatever your belief                                                                    
     is  set it  up that  way.  So that's  what I'm  worried                                                                    
     about. Those are my concerns  with these kind of bills.                                                                    
     Like  I  said, I  have  friends  that have  open-ranged                                                                    
     horses over  in Kachemak  Bay. It's a  tough way  for a                                                                    
     horse  to make  it  through the  winter.  Some of  them                                                                    
     might not  have. I know  there's one of them,  a living                                                                    
     legend in  our neighborhood  that had  a big  old chunk                                                                    
     out of its rear end from where  a bear got a hold of it                                                                    
     in  the spring  when it  was born.  So it's  all pretty                                                                    
     subjective. One person's standard  of good care will be                                                                    
     another person's  level of outrage.  Those are  some of                                                                    
     my  problems  with  putting some  of  these  things  in                                                                    
     statute.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS agreed with Senator  Ogan and said according to his                                                               
veterinarian, his  horses are the healthiest  in Alaska, although                                                               
others might not believe they are appropriately cared for.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He then explained the second section of his proposal [Sec.                                                                      
03.55.110] pertains to animal cruelty. He explained:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     If you  did believe  here that  there was  some cruelty                                                                    
     that was  taking place  to an animal,  it says  you can                                                                    
     bring that  complaint with a  public or  private animal                                                                    
     control agency or organization  - the department, which                                                                    
     is here  the Department of  Environmental Conservation,                                                                    
     or with a peace officer....                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     So, let's say it's the  Alaska Equine Rescue. They take                                                                    
     a look  at the animal  and they think in  their opinion                                                                    
     there is no problem there.  They may just not refer it.                                                                    
     If they think there is  a problem there, they may refer                                                                    
     it to a peace officer.  That peace officer then has the                                                                    
     process  of -  the  availability of  being  able to  go                                                                    
     through the process, to get  a search warrant and to go                                                                    
     out and  take a look.  That is  - when they  get there,                                                                    
     they have several  options. They can say  well, I don't                                                                    
     think this  warrants further  investigation or  if they                                                                    
     do think  it warrants further investigation  they could                                                                    
     actually  place   the  animal   or  the   animals  into                                                                    
     protective custody.  And then at that  point, when that                                                                    
     police  officer felt  that that  was necessary,  they'd                                                                    
     have to  request an  immediate inspection  and decision                                                                    
     by  a licensed  veterinarian  and  that placement  into                                                                    
     protective custody  is in  the immediate  best interest                                                                    
     of  the  animal. If  no  veterinarian  is available  to                                                                    
     perform an  inspection, then  that police  officer must                                                                    
     communicate with a veterinarian  who has, after hearing                                                                    
     a  description  of  the  animal  and  its  environment,                                                                    
     decided it  is in  the immediate  best interest  of the                                                                    
     animal that  it be  placed into protective  custody. If                                                                    
     the police  officer is not  able to communicate  with a                                                                    
     veterinarian, before  the officer  may take  the animal                                                                    
     the officer  must decide  it is  in the  immediate best                                                                    
     interest  of the  animal to  be placed  into protective                                                                    
     custody.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS  said  the  word  "seize"  has  been  replaced  by                                                               
protective  custody, which  he  believes is  the  intent of  most                                                               
people. He  said, regarding where  the animal would go,  it could                                                               
be placed in  the custody of Alaska Equine Rescue,  the ASPCA, or                                                               
any organization  that is willing  to care for the  animal during                                                               
the interim.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS described  Sec. 03.55.130 to say that  if, once the                                                               
animal  is taken  into protective  custody, it  appears the  best                                                               
course of  action is  to destroy the  animal, the  police officer                                                               
would have  to make contact  with a veterinarian but,  if contact                                                               
is  not possible,  the police  officer  would have  to make  that                                                               
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH  asked  if  that section  is  identical  to  Sec.                                                               
03.55.130 in the original bill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  said he thought so  but said he changed  the terms                                                               
to  "protective  custody" and  "destroy."  He  said the  proposal                                                               
provides  that  the court  could  make  some decisions  regarding                                                               
adoption and  destruction. He  noted the  most difficult  part of                                                               
the proposal  for him  was to get  consensus on  what constitutes                                                               
cruelty  to animals  in  the  first degree.  He  noted that,  for                                                               
example,  some people  want to  prepare a  dog or  cat for  human                                                               
consumption. Because  that topic gets into  cultural discussions,                                                               
that section  was removed.  Instead the  bill defines  cruelty as                                                               
knowingly inflicting  physical pain or prolonged  suffering on an                                                               
animal, using  a decompression chamber  to kill, using  poison to                                                               
kill, or  failing to  care for  an animal,  which results  in the                                                               
animal's  death. He  noted that  scientific research  accepted by                                                               
government standards would not apply.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OGAN expressed  concern that the definition  is too broad                                                               
in that  a person  could be  charged with  animal cruelty  in the                                                               
second degree if that person left  his dog outside and it was hit                                                               
by a car.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS said  he had the most  difficulty getting agreement                                                               
on  the definition  of animal  cruelty in  the second  degree. He                                                               
said  he believes  the current  animal  cruelty law  needs to  be                                                               
expanded,  especially  in  light  of  recent  animal  atrocities,                                                               
without including  accepted practices in the  state. He suggested                                                               
adopting  the  content of  his  proposal  up to  Sec.  11.61.142,                                                               
Cruelty  to  animals  in  the   second  degree,  which  could  be                                                             
addressed next session.  He said in effect, that  would provide a                                                               
definition  for minimum  standards of  care and  would allow  for                                                               
protective custody.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  OGAN moved  to adopt  a conceptual  amendment [Amendment                                                               
1], which is the proposal  offered by Chair Seekins, and includes                                                               
the material on pages 1 through 5, up to Sec. 11.61.142.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  OGAN  clarified  that  the  conceptual  amendment  would                                                               
replace the contents of CSHB 275(FIN).                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH commented  that  CSHB 275(FIN)  passed the  House                                                               
after a lot of hard work.  He expressed concern that he was under                                                               
the impression the committee planned  to remove one definition of                                                               
animal  cruelty in  the first  degree and  address steel  jaw leg                                                               
holds, snares,  and the problem  of securing animals in  the back                                                               
of pick-up  trucks. He believes  everything else in the  bill has                                                               
been well  thought through so he  was asking what options  he was                                                               
being offered.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  clarified that Amendment  1 would establish  a new                                                               
committee substitute.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH objected  because he believed the  bill before the                                                               
committee could be  fine-tuned in a short time. He  asked to hear                                                               
from  the   sponsor  or  staff   about  the   proposed  committee                                                               
substitute.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-65, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SHARALYN  WRIGHT,  staff to  Representative  Chenault,  told                                                               
members  she has  received 113  telephone calls  about this  bill                                                               
since the  last Senate Judiciary  Committee hearing.  The callers                                                               
want to  see the bill passed  as it is, however,  because session                                                               
is nearing  its end,  the sponsor is  willing to  accept whatever                                                               
the committee passes out.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  Ms. Wright  to articulate  further on  the                                                               
phone calls she has received.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WRIGHT explained  that HB  275 has  morphed from  a one-page                                                               
bill to  being combined with Representative  Crawford's bill. The                                                               
House  Judiciary  Committee then  spent  20  hours on  the  bill,                                                               
during which  it took public  testimony. Animal  control officers                                                               
statewide scrutinized  it. She added,  "If I could say  that most                                                               
of our  communications came  from Anchorage  or Fairbanks  or the                                                               
Mat-Su, I would tell you  that but it isn't. Everybody everywhere                                                               
is  concerned  about  the  Karen  Botley (ph)  case  -  the  most                                                               
egregious cases  that we've had that  are just a reflection  of a                                                               
civilization that  just shouldn't  be and for  these folks  to be                                                               
able to  continue to go  on and abuse  animals in this  way, it's                                                               
just not correct."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT  said she was  unable to  get a sectional  analysis of                                                               
Chair   Seekins'  proposal   [Amendment  1]   but  Representative                                                               
Chenault's  intent was  to  deal  with the  worst  cases. He  has                                                               
worked on this legislation for four years.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  asked if Chair  Seekins' proposal deals  with the                                                               
worst cases.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT  said it  probably does. She  maintained, "I  think it                                                               
was for  your information but if  this is actually what  the bill                                                               
does, we're  going to take  it and run with  it. I'm not  here to                                                               
object."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OGAN  said he  is appalled by  animal cruelty  cases like                                                               
everyone  else and  believes  the  proposed committee  substitute                                                               
deals with those cases. He said  in reality, only the worst cases                                                               
will be prosecuted. He is  concerned however, that in reaction to                                                               
the  worst cases,  people will  attempt to  fix the  situation by                                                               
"making  it so  that farmers  cannot farm  or dog  mushers cannot                                                               
mush and  there are those  out there  that don't want  farmers to                                                               
farm or dog mushers to  mush." He believes the proposed committee                                                               
substitute provides a good balance.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS took public testimony.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SALLY  CLAMPITT,  Alaska Equestrians,  thanked  members  for                                                               
taking this issue on at this  late date and for their willingness                                                               
to leave  the basics  of the bill  intact. She  expressed concern                                                               
that Amendment  1 increases  the defenses  of cruelty  statute to                                                               
include  some   of  the  disciplines   of  riding   and  training                                                               
practices.  She noted  that training  practices were  put in  the                                                               
defenses of  cruelty statute  in 1998.  She was  not sure  of the                                                               
need to  defend a  couple of disciplines  of riding  and training                                                               
practices as opposed  to the condition of the animal  or the acts                                                               
committed. She recommended that  those provisions be removed. She                                                               
questioned why  rodeos were  included and  said one  person could                                                               
consider a  lot of training  practices cruel while  another would                                                               
find those same practices acceptable.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  pointed out that training  practices were included                                                               
in the version of the bill that was referred to the committee.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLAMPITT repeated  that was put into statute in  1998 and was                                                               
slipped in at the very end.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS  said  he  believes the  proposed  CS  covers  the                                                               
egregious situations  and he does "not  want to love it  to death                                                               
and kill the whole thing."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLAMPITT agreed with that approach.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS announced that without objection, Senator Ogan's                                                                  
motion to adopt Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OGAN moved SCS CSHB 275(JUD) and its attached fiscal                                                                    
notes from committee with individual recommendations.                                                                           

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